Open Discussions/ Gulf Cultural Club
*Abideen Dubyan (Palestinian activist former camp refugee)
**Julia Katherina (researcher, musician)
***Fatima Helow (Palestinian Journalist and Film maker)
Since the Nakba in 1948 (the Palestinian catastrophe which is marked on 15th May) the people of the occupied territories have been suffering human, material and psychological hardship under Israeli occupation. From those living in 1948 occupied areas to those in the West Bank and Gaza, the trauma has continued for generations. The core issue here is that
they do not want to give up their land to the occupiers who are supported by major Western powers and resisted by almost all Palestinians and their supporters. Recent events in Jerusalem and Gaza have, once again, proven beyond doubt the resilience of the natives of the land and the failure of their occupiers to declare total victory almost three quarters of a century after their occupation. Mass repression, displacement, Western support and betrayal of some Arab regimes have failed to subdue the Palestinians.
Monday 9th May 2022 x
Julia Katharina: Thank you all for coming. It was this country which sold Palestine to its occupiers. This has been a bone of contention for the past 74 years and we have here with us a fellow walker. There was a group of us with the Amos Trust who walked in 2017 from London to Jerusalem. Eleven out of 13 people walked as far as Turkey and they unfortunately they had to fly to Amman and walk across the Alenby Bridge.
It was not possible to walk through Syria or Iraq as it would have not been possible to cross the Israeli border into the West Bank. That was a huge compromise. In sha Allah one day it will be possible to do so. I have seen the remains of some of the railways that used to run between those countries both in Palestine and in Lebanon or what is left of them rusty and
with bullet holes. They are the sign of a bygone era when there was freedom of movement.
Rather than talking about politics, starting revolutions or controversies I wanted to refocus what was was pointed out by a young man at the last Palestinian demo I went on about a year ago in Hyde Park. He said that Palestine is the unifying issue for all Muslims. And I was really struck by that. The more I think about it the more I realise it is true. Not only is it the
unifying issue for all Muslims it is the really the unifying issue of all denominations and all different religions including Jewish people many of whom support Palestine and are outspoken in their opposition to Israeli policies.
At the same demo there was this lovely group of Orthodox North London Jews demonstrating along them majority Muslim population of the demo. And there was one particular guy who was in his ringlets and he was kind of nerdy jumping up and down saying Judaism yes, Zionism no. The state of Israel has got to go. This was particularly touching.
Zionism was a political movement which does not really have a lot of do with Judaism. Israel is a secular state. I was studying Islamic law and I was actually asked by one of my professors to write about the Israeli constitution.
During my research I found out what was passed. Like this country they do not have a written constitution and I was very surprised to find to what extent it is actually based on Jewish religious law. Maybe five percent of the draft of the constitution the part that relates to rights and equality. That is probably why it was not passed because they could not agree on it. They would have to give equal rights to all the citizens regardless of their belief and ethnicity. It is one of the most divided countries that I have seen. It will be a cold day in hell before that happens. Let us not be pessimistic.
Incidentally Palestine does have a constitution – a fairly substantial one for what is it worth given that it only has observer status in the UN and even gaining that was a fairly symbolic step in the right direction involved crushing the entire economy and losing a lot of international support from the left. That is when I left and came back to do my masters. It was no longer viable to stay there economically. I was teaching music and people were having to withdraw their kids from such activities.
As Nelson Mandela said that we know to well that our freedom is incomplete without the freedom of the Palestinians. This is another instance of how this issue draws people together, it draws support globally across the sectarian divide and just as there are Christian Zionists
and there are people from various political and religious groups who support Israel for various reasons there is far more universal support for Palestine because it is a humanitarian issue and an ongoing one which has caused a tremendous amount of fall out.
Now two-thirds or three quarters of the population are outside the country’s borders and scattered over the entire planet. You meet Palestinians everywhere. Imam Khomeini was a staunch supporter of Palestine and a greater unifier than people realise. More than I realise
even though I have taken an interest in his academic work. We studied some of it at college. He even went as far as to say that in order to be a proper Muslim you have to support Palestine. So if you do not support Palestine you are not a proper Muslim. This is pretty strong wording. But he wanted to be sure about it.
Now two-thirds or three quarters of the population are outside the country’s borders and scattered over the entire planet. You meet Palestinians everywhere. Imam Khomeini was a staunch supporter of Palestine and a greater unifier than people realise. More than I realise
even though I have taken an interest in his academic work. We studied some of it at college. He even went as far as to say that in order to be a proper Muslim you have to support Palestine. So if you do not support Palestine you are not a proper Muslim. This is pretty strong wording. But he wanted to be sure about it.
And that goes across denominations. It is not part of a particular Shia agenda or part of a particular political agenda with any kind of vested interest. You can count on one hand the countries that have actively supported Palestine without any vested interest. Oman has been
one of them and it has been a great mediator for a long time. So was Iran. Even when Yasser Arafat went on a state visit to Iran in 1979 and was guaranteed unwavering support for the country and then allied himself with Saddam during the Iran-Iraq it still did not shake the unwavering support of the Ayatollah.
Now things are a bit more complex. Not everyone is a supporter of his or a supporter of Palestine for various complex reasons and there is a lot of historic baggage and a lot of historic reasons. There are reasons why some communities may not be unwavering in their support but I maintain it is not a personal issue. It is an issue which requires as the bishop of Nablus said that requires total commitment regardless of what we may or may not gain from such allegiance.
I actually applied for citizenship which would not have done me any favours at all and the current president Mahmoud Abbas agreed with it. We had lunch but then bureaucratic issues got in the way and everything moved very slowly and had to be approved by the occupation forces and the current government can’t do much more than manage the occupation for them. It is kind of an honorary position that I am proud to hold as a life long supporter of Palestine even though it has not done me any favours in the classical music field as there is a lot conservatism and a lot of support for Israel. It can aid me as well. Their propaganda is a lot more far reaching and effective and has a lot more financial and other support behind it.
It is not always the easiest path to walk. But it is a central issue. It really is the heart of the world in many ways. Perhaps what Mandela was talking about was that it really does have a knock on effect on the whole region. For example Syria. One does not always understand the situation in Syria but one has to bear in mind that is has been in a constant state of emergency since 1949. When you look at the whole situation through that lens it makes a lot more sense of the chaotic carryings on. At the point when people started flying the Palestinian flag because the government fights Palestine I was nearly at the point of giving up trying to understand it. Most of my colleagues are Syrian and having worked on many conferences about it over the years my understanding has definitely improved.
The word on the street in Palestine is different from the narrative in this country about what is going on. A lot of it is about water resources apart from just the usual story about territorial expansion. A lot of water resources have been drained by the occupying powers in historic Palestine and the West Bank to the point where the holy Jordan River is no longer the great river it once more.
Edward Saeed said that Palestine has to be a secular struggle and he was secular himself. Although people who adhere to every religion have some kind of connection with the holy city of Jerusalem it is beyond any of those denominational or religious differences. Secularism in the inclusive sense means people from all religions support the Palestinian cause and it has to be so. It cannot be the struggle of one particular group. It has to be local
and fairly inclusive.
There is an anecdote from his later years when he sat crying at not having done enough for Palestine during his years in exile and his family were quite shocked because he has written so much, he has been so engaged in the issue. So it really begs the question for the rest of us. I wake up in the middle of the night thinking what am doing. Am I doing enough for
Palestine. It is not enough to wear the traditional Palestinian dress on a particular day particular place or argue with people at dinner parties.
It really requires more of us. We really have to unite in support of Palestine. It can become competitive with different groups feeling that they are genuine supporters. We are doing more or we are more genuinely connected to the cause. But we all have to do what we can. And we have to have a unified effort. And as long as there are sectarian divides that is not
going to happen.
So my plea is to get over all of those and to be inspired by the unifying issue of Palestine that there are much bigger issues which transcend personal differences that we can put all of our energy into rather than to keep arguing about what is the best solution. There are many solutions but at the moment nobody seems to be checking into them on the political level because they are not on their agenda or they are not profitable.
I am very grateful to Dr Saeed for giving me this opportunity to speak about the land I love and feel for the Palestinian cause. We just had Al Quds day the other day, we have Nakba day next week and there is going to be a big demonstration which I hope you will join on Saturday.
Abideen Dubyan: Thank you very much for having me with you tonight. And I have to thank everybody and congratulate our people in Jerusalem and in Palestine in the refugee camps and I say to all Eid Mubarak. I have to thank the previous speaker for her excellent speech and for wearing the traditional Palestinian dress and the key which means you insist on
returning to Palestine which, in sha Allah, will be soon.
First of all when we talk about the Nakba we talk about identity. This is the real Nakba. The is why we are talking about our identity as Palestinians and focusing on the identity of Palestine. One of the main issues for the Jewish people is identity. They claim that Palestine is their homeland because historically they own this land. This is completely wrong and unfortunately many people in Muslim countries do not know the real history of Palestine.
The Jews claim Jerusalem and Palestine which is 3,000 years old. They say the first Israeli or Jewish people came from Egypt to Palestine. That was 1003 years ago before Jesus which is 3000 years from now. But history tells us that this land belongs to Canaan Arabs, the Arab tribes that came to Palestine and built the main cities like Erika and others.
The first people who lived in Al Quds or Jerusalem city ruled it for many, many years before foreigners came and occupied this land. And all of that shows us that this land was settled by the Arabs and it belongs to the Arabs at least 4,000 years before the first Jews came who believe in Moses and Torah.
So this is a very important point to be mentioned at such events. And every time we have an anniversary for Nakba. I believe that loosing the land is not a big problem as it will be returned to us sooner or late. In life there is loss and any life will be ended either by shahada or by other means.
But if you lose your identity it is a real catastrophe. So that is why we have to keep holding up the right identity for Palestine and Jerusalem and that is why we have to teach our children to make them surely to fight for their rights and to return to their homeland.
The catastrophe of the nakba that happened in 1948 was the last stage in the real catastrophe. We have to go back in history to 1917 when Balfour issued his declaration which is the Balfour declaration and the other side of the real catastrophe.
If we go to 1917 we see what happened in the Basel conference in Switzerland. It was decided to establish a national state for the Jews in Palestine and from that we can say that the Nakba started.
As Palestinians we are fighting a conflict with the occupier. The people who have taken our land or stolen our land. We have no problem at all with Jews. We have no problem with their religion. The evidence of that is that when I was a child and I told you in other events my mother was born in Jaffa in 1935 and she told me some stories about growing up in a small
town called Salama. Her best friend was a Jewish girl. They were neighbours. They were very nice. They used to live together in peace and harmony and they were very co-operative. My grandmother when she needed help asked the Jewish lady and the Jewish lady also asked my grandmother for help. I heard that story when I was a child about the nice, lovely life when we lived together as Muslims, Jews and Christians in Palestine before 1947.
But unfortunately my mum told me in 1947 and after that – 1948 – those people who came from overseas – kicked us out from our homeland and they occupied our land. That was why my mother ran away from her homeland to the West Bank and then to Jordan. This is the real story.
Our struggle as Palestinians is with the occupation. Our enemy is the occupation. We will be fighting until our rights and our homeland is returned to us. That is one of the main issues which we ask Allah to help us with to achieve our goals and to return to our land.
So there are two main issues that I want to speak about. The first one is identity that this land belongs to the Arabs historically from more than 3,000 years ago and the Jews came as guests to this land. What they call the Israeli/Palestinian conflict is the conflict with the people who came from outside Palestine to occupy our land.
The final issue that I want to mention is that what is happening these days to our people in Jerusalem and our people in Gaza. You know that Gaza is still under siege for more than 13 years. This is unbelievable. This is a shame for all of us as human beings to see around more than two million people under siege for more than 13 years and we do not do anything to
release them or to lift this siege from all of them.
Our aim on this 74 th anniversary is confirm that we are doing our best to return our rights in all areas. We will never give up until we go back to Jerusalem, to Nablus, Jaffa, Haifa, Acca and all other areas and villages and towns in Palestine. More than six million Palestinian refugees all over the world are waiting for that day when we return to our home. Thank you.
Salam aleikum.
Fatima Helow: Good afternoon. First of all I would like to thank the organisers of this meeting the Gulf Cultural Club. To being with my name is Fatima Helow. I am a Palestinian refugee who was born and grew up in Shatila refugee camp in Lebanon. My parents are originally from Deir Aljur in the mountains near Haifa. This area is now called Beir Jagour. It is full of Jewish families who came to live in that area.
My parents were forced on 21 st April 1948 to flee from their home as the Haganah Zionist gangs came to kill them. They fled to a neighbouring town. My mother was only 16 and she was pregnant. They had to walk from Haifa until they reached the border of Lebanon.. One of the British officers took her in his jeep because she was pregnant. He also took her cousin and
sister to the border. They stopped in a kibbutz and they wanted to kill the mother but the British officer refused to leave them until they joined their families. My mother gave birth in a tent on the border of Lebanon. After eight months my oldest sister who would be 74 today if she had lived, died from malnutrition.
My family lived in Shatila refugee camp and they never forgot they have to go back to their home town in Haifa. Every day I was listening to their stories about life in Haifa, how they used to cook, how they used to plant.
There is a UN resolution which gives the right of return to the Palestinian who were forced in 1948 to leave their land. It has never been applied. They settled in refugee camps. You can imagine the conditions in the camps. There is no electricity, sewage, no health conditions. Generation after generation suffer from these conditions.
I was born in a refugee camp. I saw the Shabra and Shatilla massacres. I was forced to walk over dead bodies. Since I was a child I wanted to return to Palestine. Any Jew in the world has the right to come to my home in Haifa. They have the ‘right to return’ to Israel while I have no right of return. Even my parents and grandfathers cannot return.
The absentee law in Israel does not allow any Palestinian refugee to return to their ancestral land or their home. Even those who are Arab Israelis (they are actually Palestinians). They are living in other places but they have no right to access their land or their properties.
If we look at what is happening in Ukraine. We see how many Jewish people immigrated into the occupied territory of Palestine. This is a contradiction. The whole European world is saying there is an occupation of Ukraine. But in the case of Palestine for 74 years we have been refugees living in refugee camps. But they do not accept that Israel is an occupied place.
Now we seeing several things happening every day in Jerusalem. We see what is happening in Al Aqsa in the holy church in Jerusalem – how they are provoking a whole community of Palestinians whether Muslim or Christian. You are targeted. They do not want you there. They do not want you to live in peace and follow your own religion which is against international law.
Regarding the history of Jerusalem. Jacob passed Jerusalem with his servant and his donkey. He said I will not get into this place. It is a strange place – there are people living there. So he refused to go and stay one night. This is the story of Jacob.
I was doing research recently for my Masters. I found a lot of things about Sheikh Sarahna. During the Ottoman empire a Jewish person was not allowed to buy land it that place. After the British mandate this law was changed to privatise Palestinian land. It is an old thing they are trying to claim the land without any rights. During the crusades the priests of Jerusalem when the caliph came to Jerusalem they had a declaration to open Jerusalem for the Muslims. So the priest said we have this agreement and the Muslims can practise their religion the Christians can practise their religion but we do not allow any Jews to be inside Jerusalem.
So that was a grievance between the Christians and the Muslims after the crusades. What is happening now is provoking humanity. I don’t know if you have heard to the new ethnic cleansing that is happening in Jafa a Hebrew city. They are now displacing 20,000 families from their land. They want to build a new settlement area. This is against international law in
the occupied territories. This is another ethnic cleansing.
So for the Palestinians the Nakba is continuing till now. What is left? There is nothing left. After this provocation there is a lot of reaction which is coming back from the community. They are not happy about what is happening. What we are seeing every day in Jerusalem is against the law and against international law. There is no protection for the Palestinians, for the civilians.
Therefore I would like to ask you not to write to your MP, not just to go to a demonstration but this time we want you to act to go Jerusalem and to stand with your fellow human beings who are in a terrible condition. This is what we are looking for.
I would just like to add every year we have a delegation going to the refugee camps in Lebanon to commemorate the Shabra and Chatilia massacres. We have delegations from the UK to join us and to go and see the reality. We have a campaign for justice for the Palestinian refugees – more than 3500 killed and disappeared during the Sabra and Shatilia massacres in just four days. Some of them are missing. We do not know anything about them.
We tried to go to the international court. We failed because the Israelis changed the law for the country of origin when we raised the case.
If anyone would like to join us and see the reality this delegation will go to the Sabra and Shatilia camps. Please let me know and talk to me after this meeting. Thank you.
*Abideen Dubyan was born in 1969 at Al Zarqa refugee camp in Jordan, His father was from Nablus and mother from Yafa. He studied at the schools of the Palestinian Refugee Relief Agency. Then he studied Anesthetics at Al Balqa Applied University in Jordan. He also studied at the University of
Bedfordshire and became Anesthetic practitioner. He is finalizing his MSc in Pain Management at Leicester University. He also holds an MSc in Sharia Law from the European Institute for Humanitarian Science. He is preparing for PhD at Al Zaitouna University in Tunisia. He is Director of Palestinian Doctors in Europe (Palmed Europe).
**Julia Katharina was born in Sussex on Her Majesty’s Silver Jubilee, Julia Aaisha Zahra has travelled over three continents and lived in Palestine for nearly four years, where she embraced Islam in Masjid Al-Aqsa and taught at music schools around the West Bank between 2008 and 2012. Her
MSc is in Applied Music Psychology from Roehampton University and she is currently studying for her MA in Islamic Law at the Islamic College/Middlesex University London. Julia founded Unity Music in 2016, touring refugee camps in Europe and the Eastern Mediterranean, including a tour most Palestinian camps in several countries.
***Fatima Helow is a journalist and film maker. She is Executive Director at The Disposra 1948 Production Ltd, with a trade name of Helow Media. She studied Film, Media and Journalism Studies at the University of Stirling in Scotland. She was born in Shatila Palestinian refugee camp in Lebanon. She witnessed the Sabra and Shatila massacres in 1982 and the reconstruction of the camp. She takes interest in seeking justice to the victims of the camps atrocities and strengthen their cultural identity. Fatima has just finished her MA in Film and Television Production at the university of West London- Metfilmschool. Her film AAMAL was chosen to be the first film and screened at Vue cinema recently at Westfield cinema.
